ProRealCode MarketPlace: sell your trading products to thousands of ProRealTime users!

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05/06/2020 at 4:26 PM #130275 quote

Razz
Participant

Master

Hello Nicolas

What is the status, now we have opened May and still no market place. Let’s still experience that in 2020 😉

greeting

05/06/2020 at 4:40 PM #130277 quote

Nicolas
Keymaster

Master

Despite the fact that development is progressing well, the past month has been very busy on prorealcode. We experienced a peak in attendance (and therefore topics to be covered on the forums) at least 4 times higher than the average!
The marketplace was not intended for version 10.3 of the platform at the base, but the delay taken by IG to migrate to v11, forces us to adapt our developments to make them compatible with the current version. I ask you for a little more patience .. again.

I take this message to send again to all the fact that you can send me your request to open a store, if however you think you can offer products that could arouse the interest of traders: automatic strategies, indicators, screeners , indicator groups, manual strategies, training … let me know! : market@prorealcode.com

05/26/2020 at 1:37 PM #133318 quote

deletedaccount100622
Participant

New

Greatly looking forward to this development

For anyone wishing to try out systems that I am building as candidates for the marketplace once it is ready, they are available at https://robofuturestrader.com/category/development-strategies/

All are currently running live in my portfolio

They come with licences that will currently last until the end of July, uncomment line 14 to activate them

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06/21/2020 at 12:04 PM #136658 quote

deletedaccount100622
Participant

New

Hi Nicolas

last night I saw a Twitter Ad for a prorealtime system linking to a website with a neat little calculator that would allow you to calculate how much you could win using their systems, how small the cost of the system was in comparison to the wins and looking like a sure thing

We all know that if trading spots that sometimes back tests and live results can vary, PRT V11 data varies from IG.com and Interactive brokers.

Running live systems also involves risk management and sizing controls to be successful, it is entirely possible to have profitable systems but blow your account up

I know the market will have reviews for products purchased but what protections will be in place for people buying systems?

06/21/2020 at 3:53 PM #136676 quote

Nicolas
Keymaster

Master

I’m not sure about what you have in mind about “protection”? 🙂

06/21/2020 at 9:02 PM #136710 quote

Gianluca
Participant

Master

Robo Futures Trader wrote:

Greatly looking forward to this development

For anyone wishing to try out systems that I am building as candidates for the marketplace once it is ready, they are available at https://robofuturestrader.com/category/development-strategies/

All are currently running live in my portfolio

They come with licences that will currently last until the end of July, uncomment line 14 to activate them

Man, your signal indicators are open files, i think you should close them if your purpose was to sell and give a trial period 😉

06/29/2020 at 2:17 PM #137504 quote

deletedaccount100622
Participant

New

Yeah I did on around 3 I think, thanks for letting me know I must have missed checking code not modifiable on the export

They are probably out of date now, the V9s are coming I just need to get the tick by tick data issue I am seeing resolved so that I can publish accurate back test results

06/29/2020 at 2:22 PM #137505 quote

deletedaccount100622
Participant

New

Perhaps it is just me, but to me a system in the marketplace would have an air of being more legit than on a random google search or twitter post, an implicit validation of the results by hosting it in the PRC market place

Will there be any validations of back tests or live demo trading to show that the results displayed at point of sale stack up or will anyone purchasing a system that turns out to not work as described be looking to Stripe for a refund?

Do people feel there is a need for a third party to validate the code? Or could the guidance be to test in your demo account before live trading a rental system?

06/29/2020 at 3:31 PM #137518 quote

Nicolas
Keymaster

Master

I think you are absolutely right, for this each trading system that will be offered by a seller must have provided proof of live trading. This proof allows the vendor to post the product on the marketplace.
Each seller may or may not offer free trial periods or monthly or even weekly subscriptions if desired. Each seller will offer their own terms and conditions since payment is made directly from the buyer to the seller, therefore if they wish to offer a principle of reimbursement based on this or that principle, they can.
But all this you should know since you have your own store on the marketplace? 😉

07/02/2020 at 5:08 AM #138041 quote

CKW
Participant

Veteran

hi Nicholas,

If the seller provide 3 months of proof of live trading, but not exactly the same versions due to code improvement, parameters change, bug fixes, and etc. For this case, may I know how do you validate them ? or focus only live result produce by last version?

br

CKW

07/02/2020 at 8:31 AM #138050 quote

Nicolas
Keymaster

Master

The marketplace will be a site for connecting product sellers and their customers. It acts as a service provider for hosting and its many associated services, as previously explained (license tools, support tools, etc.).
As host of the site, I am checking technically the products, like what I already do with the “library”, certain products will not pass the test. A seller must have a certain ethics and he will be himself (not me) directly in relation to his sellers, he will not be anonymous, he will receive payments directly and will issue his own invoices, all this implying a certain responsibility, I think that ‘It takes some seriousness to be able to do it.
Comments on products will not be moderated by sellers, everything will be public, a good product with good service will necessarily receive good comments and vice versa.

To answer your question directly, I cannot know precisely what the protected code of a seller contains, intellectual property remains theirs of course. It’s been 1 year that I work alone on the project, I really don’t want it to not work! Happy customers is all i want and it will be the best reward for all this time spent making this great project 🙂

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07/25/2020 at 11:48 AM #140080 quote

Johnsteed
Participant

Junior

A few thoughts how to ensure product quality.

For example, looking to the MQL market place, it’s full of apparantly well working trade robots. The issue is NOT to find an EA which looks promising in backtest and then for a while on DEMO or LIVE accounts.

The issue is to be sure there are no fake approaches in, which are revealed later outside backtesting only. Like for example if the seller uses data tables with pre-stored signal and trade data out of the past, to have a perfect curve fitting. After the table data are exhaused (means after the code is released), the code would need to fall back to the real algorithm. If that’s not good as the backtest promises, the buyer will see – but too late.

The biggest goal of the new market place should be focus on ideas how faked contributions can be avoided. I’m no code expert but believe that as strategy code is intellectual property of the sellers, this may not be sharable to quality checks. So probably only indirect ways to ensure quality exist.

Such an indirect way might be that sellers are obliged to offer next to purchasing as well renting of each strategy for say a minimum of 2-6 month to allow that buyers can convince themselves on ordinary behaviour, either on DEMO or on LIVE accounts. If PRT is or could be made smart to detect if a strategy is running at a DEMO account, than a strategy could be smart to run on DEMO only, and so sellers could have to offer DEMO test periods for free even as the buyer has no income from that usage.

A seller performing an honest job shouldn’t have big objections against market practices to ensure product quality. If the PRT market would be more safe compared to other markets and platforms sold therein, this could be a HUGE marketing and advertising argument against such other markets.

Makes sense?

07/25/2020 at 2:37 PM #140083 quote

GraHal
Participant

Master

Yes makes a lot of sense.

Have you first hand experience of buying duds / Systems with fake approaches?

Nothing like being bit to sharpen the wits!? 🙂 Once bitten twice shy!?

The renting proposal may be a good workable idea … it shows commitment on the part of the buyer and the seller is being remunerated etc.

Also means that lots of Systems can be tested (as rentals) to find a System that suits one’s trading personality.

07/25/2020 at 7:58 PM #140096 quote

Nicolas
Keymaster

Master

The fake approach you are talking about is not possible. No strategies can be available publicly if it is not traded in live environment. Here are extract of the website Terms of Services that vendors must accept:

Within the CONTENT and TRAINING description, the SELLER commits not to make promises of gains, use superlatives to designate performance or present results of back tests as real earnings.

If the CONTENT or TRAINING relate to an automatic trading strategy, the results obtained during tests on historical data shall not be considered as a certainty on the future performance of the strategy. Moreover, any CONTENT or TRAINING relating to an automatic trading strategy must be tested in real conditions of trading by the SELLER which shall be able to demonstrate such testing upon request from the OPERATOR. In the absence of such testing, related CONTENT or TRAINING shall not be put up for sale on the SELLER SHOP.

GraHal thanked this post

08/09/2020 at 10:00 AM #141197 quote
PeterSt
Participant

Master
Hi – Maybe we shouldn’t even attempt to ensure a well-working system/strategy/etc. because, well, when the data / environment changes, the Code may (will !) change its profitability.
Personally I never found an endlessly back-tested Code to work out the same in reality (actually, reality depicts that I better stop writing Codes :-). And no, I don’t over-optimize.

An other matter could be that a strategy (supported Code for it) should be presented for explicitly one security. For example, never think that a Code for EUR/USD works out the same for GBP/USD, no matter how similar they look at first glance. The one may give you profit of 100K while the other gives you loss of 1M.

No Code can be made resilient to
Trump
Covid-19
Brexit
Huwaway (5G stuff)
Uber (et al)
Covid-19 post effects (think Zoom, TeamViewer related)
Etc. etc. etc.

Additionally, what may work more or less for IG, may not work at all for IB.
What works for IB, will not work optimally at all for IG.
(both assuming that there will be AutoTrading for IB as well, which today only can be tested in Paper / BackTesting)
This is because of the enormous difference in Broker Fees (Commission).
Hey, the data isn’t even the same for PRT/IG vs PRT/IB ! (the differennces will mostly be marginal, but they make or brake your code/profit).

While the above counts for strategies (Codes running those), there’s also :

The graphical support – say Indicators. These can be checked in advance, I’d say. You like them (buy them) or not.

Special could be the Screeners; They present you instruments which readily can be checked upon by means of their functional description by the writer/seller which will enable checking for the functionality against Graphs. It will be YOU obtaining the instruments; not the person writing the Screener.

Nicolas, from the above may follow that Codes for AutoTrading should not even be allowed in. And to be honest, would I sell my ever winning code, might it exist ? OK, I might, for 100K euros. Mind you, I am serious here. An ever winning code is worth an infinite amount of money.
But you will be too afraid to buy it.
A Code which may win some and lose some, costing 50 euros, … you won’t buy that either.

When Codes for AutoTrading are not allowed in, OR when they are fully on the buyer’s risk (hence e.g. you won’t even check those), the problem could be solved. Thus summarised :
- An Indicator (or graphing from it) is the most easy to check for its workings;
- A Screener is also easy to validate against its promises. They are harmless when using them.
Both the above are as exciting to design and will be even more exciting to actually use.
My further (of course personal) advice would be to just obtain an life lasting license for e.g. 10 euros (no support), instead of a limited subscription like 50 cts per month (probably also without support). This also incorporates the trouble of invoicing (nobody is waiting for making invoices each month of 50 cts – also not invoices of 1 euro each year – trust me !).

Best regards,
Peter
(due beta tester for PRT/IB AutoTrading)
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