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08/09/2020 at 10:00 AM #141197
Hi – Maybe we shouldn’t even attempt to ensure a well-working system/strategy/etc. because, well, when the data / environment changes, the Code may (will !) change its profitability.
Personally I never found an endlessly back-tested Code to work out the same in reality (actually, reality depicts that I better stop writing Codes :-). And no, I don’t over-optimize.
An other matter could be that a strategy (supported Code for it) should be presented for explicitly one security. For example, never think that a Code for EUR/USD works out the same for GBP/USD, no matter how similar they look at first glance. The one may give you profit of 100K while the other gives you loss of 1M.
No Code can be made resilient to
Huwaway (5G stuff)
Uber (et al)
Covid-19 post effects (think Zoom, TeamViewer related)
Etc. etc. etc.
Additionally, what may work more or less for IG, may not work at all for IB.
What works for IB, will not work optimally at all for IG.
(both assuming that there will be AutoTrading for IB as well, which today only can be tested in Paper / BackTesting)
This is because of the enormous difference in Broker Fees (Commission).
Hey, the data isn’t even the same for PRT/IG vs PRT/IB ! (the differennces will mostly be marginal, but they make or brake your code/profit).
While the above counts for strategies (Codes running those), there’s also :
The graphical support – say Indicators. These can be checked in advance, I’d say. You like them (buy them) or not.
Special could be the Screeners; They present you instruments which readily can be checked upon by means of their functional description by the writer/seller which will enable checking for the functionality against Graphs. It will be YOU obtaining the instruments; not the person writing the Screener.
Nicolas, from the above may follow that Codes for AutoTrading should not even be allowed in. And to be honest, would I sell my ever winning code, might it exist ? OK, I might, for 100K euros. Mind you, I am serious here. An ever winning code is worth an infinite amount of money.
But you will be too afraid to buy it.
A Code which may win some and lose some, costing 50 euros, … you won’t buy that either.
When Codes for AutoTrading are not allowed in, OR when they are fully on the buyer’s risk (hence e.g. you won’t even check those), the problem could be solved. Thus summarised :
- An Indicator (or graphing from it) is the most easy to check for its workings;
- A Screener is also easy to validate against its promises. They are harmless when using them.
Both the above are as exciting to design and will be even more exciting to actually use.
My further (of course personal) advice would be to just obtain an life lasting license for e.g. 10 euros (no support), instead of a limited subscription like 50 cts per month (probably also without support). This also incorporates the trouble of invoicing (nobody is waiting for making invoices each month of 50 cts – also not invoices of 1 euro each year – trust me !).
(due beta tester for PRT/IB AutoTrading)08/09/2020 at 10:32 AM #141204
Hello Peter, I did not fully understand your message, but it seems to me that you are a little bitter about trading in general and what to expect from it. Indeed, nothing is ideal and there will always be frustrations and disillusions. At this stage, there are always 2 possibilities: not to trust trustworthy products available on a site like the marketplace and to manage by yourself to take advantage of what the markets can give us. Either keep you time for either trying to find the best compromise between the risk and the expected returns with what other people can offer us against a financial counterpart.
Let’s take it simple, if I need to have a wall painted, and I don’t have any brushes, I’ll go get some at the DIY store. People have needs and there are people who can meet them. This is the main purpose of the prorealcode site (where everything is free) and its future extension to the marketplace. I discuss and work daily with professional traders and management funds, they don’t have more sophisticated tools than those you can find here or on the marketplace, it’s up to everyone to take advantage and not believe that everything will be ideal because we bought a license X euros, it is a reality.
No one will ever be able to predict what will happen in the next hour with absolute confidence, and that is a part of life 🙂
Personally I never found an endlessly back-tested Code to work out the same in reality
What is robust in a splitted IS+OOS in backtests?
For example, never think that a Code for EUR/USD works out the same for GBP/USD,
Sorry but why it should?! Because of correlation? GBP is not EUR, if you divide it by USD, you don’t get the same exact instrument, but i’m sure you know that 🙂
Additionally, what may work more or less for IG, may not work at all for IB.
Indeed, CFD is not Future! You should not either compare the twos, but I know this is a question very often raised, derivatives are difficult for a lot of people to understand.
And to be honest, would I sell my ever winning code, might it exist ? OK, I might, for 100K euros. Mind you, I am serious here. An ever winning code is worth an infinite amount of money.
This is a misconception and often conveyed on forums. No one sells their algos at this price, believe me. Selling such an expensive strategy means that the client can pay this amount and that he has sufficient funds to recover this purchase price in the first month by trading with sizeable position sizes. This sort of thing will never happen in retail trading.08/09/2020 at 10:41 AM #141205
Dear People, dear Nicolas,
I see a few concerns, which did not occur to me when this (great) shop was announced at first. But please feel free to correct me where you deem it necessary !
If my Screeners are so superb that I sell already only one of them for 10,000 times (haha, wishful thinking !) and that one costs 10 euros, my bank account would somehow fill with 100,000 euros, right ?
Or maybe not so good, when the tax inspector comes along. IOW, I don’t think that this can be done by everybody. It will just be too much money to let-go by tax departments.
Next huge issue could be VAT related subjects. Thus, might I think that I declare this income at the tax department, sadly all kinds of Intra-Community regulations pop up. And please (addressing the Seller), forget about “just doing” this on your own. It is too complicated and too much is involved. Also, that 10 euros for a Screener etc. is too low to cover for administrative costs. Really.
I can elaborate much more, but for now I will stick to these as small arguments not to set this up yourself. There is simply too much overhead in everything.
Thus, not seeking for more arguments, I sure would have the question to Nicolas who is setting up the payments ? I mean, I really don’t estimate that a French inhabitant is going to ask me for a check (LOL). Over here (Netherlands) we hardly know what a check is. However, luckily these days even PayPal is allowed in France, but … do people have PayPal ?
And so on …
So at first (small year ago), to me it seemed an integrated part of PRT. Say a credit-like exercise – and actually more than that. Say some kind of account that can be used to transfer funds to IB/IG.
I know, I know … that too would be wishful thinking, but will anything work without such means ??
If I am estimating matters correctly, I suppose that you, Nicolas, or PRT have chosen for the not-so-complicated process of avoiding all the $ issues. But meanwhile that burden now is on each individual.
This can’t be (it won’t work out) …
Please remember : Correct me where I am wrong !
If needed this can be worked out more, referring to some experience I personally have with these matters, including running a couple of businesses. Either end of this spectrum deals with internet purchases licence related as well as sales license related, as well as hardware both purchasing and selling (and importing and shipping).
So might it help, one of my companies writes/sells ERP software for almost 35 years now and an other deals with world wide (50 countries or so) sales of both software and hardware. Please notice that Enterprise Resource Planning is largely pure financials with for us European, sadly, those Inter-Community regulations. But PRT also crosses EU borders, which already happens with Switzerland, Norway and a few more.
If we want to set this up (and I really like to !) then IMHO there must be a certain approach which makes all “doable”, efficient and especially legal for everyone, without hassle. That would again come down to a centralized money management system, where IMO nobody will ever need to see the money, but may use it for his/her trading account.
Please notice that this is not at all about me myself, because I do have these businesses and VAT numbers and some knowledge of it and a PayPal receiving payment system and of course normal accounts for those without PayPal and a webshop to automatically arrange for (your) purchases and payments to me. But what good is that when I am the only one who can contribute ?
I can fully imagine that these matters can not be responded to easily publically (too much involved). Well, then don’t. But consider, please. Send a PM with not too many words could be an idea ? Later to summarise in here ?
Peter08/09/2020 at 10:49 AM #141206
Nicolas, Brief response :
Hello Peter, I did not fully understand your message, but it seems to me that you are a little bitter about trading in general and what to expect from it.
Haha, the contrary ! I was just holding back a little.
I only responded to the concerns of others.
So with that in mind, you may understand my message better (and may it help, I reach the order history limit of 500 within one month 🙂 – worsening !).
No mistake : I really like to let this shop work. I will buy from it and I will try to contribute to it.
Peter08/09/2020 at 10:56 AM #141207
This sort of thing will never happen in retail trading.
All right. Count this in as my mistake.
I am apparently uninformed about that.
Btw, it was obviously figurative. Still, if my ever winning code brings you, well, ever winning, then I should not sell it for 1000. So that would imply a deadlock.
To avoid possibly misunderstanding and before you ask : I am “retail trading”. There could be more without you knowing ? (read : the market for your shop may be different than anticipated ?).
Otherwise never mind this subject.08/09/2020 at 2:12 PM #141217
Peter, if you have questions regarding payments, VAT and how the process of payment is made through the marketplace, please send me directly an email to market[at]prorealcode.com
We are a bit off topic here regarding these annoying administrative discussions! 😉08/11/2020 at 11:37 AM #141379
I think it is unfair to think that seller must be selling for millions for his best strategy, because here is not about selling the code thus its Intellectual Property, where you loss the ownership for good, but purely licensing. There is good reason why people would license they best strategy, for example, to gather capital, to have additional passive income, as it is near impossible to have stable $5k/month, if you just have $10k capital, (maybe this month you gain $500, next month $2k), so licensing is 1 way to help with it. It is not to say seller take advantage of subscriber, but it is a win-win attempt. And as seller, likely they want to license their best strategy and not some lousy or over-fitted ones, as there is no point to attract 2 subscribers, receive bad feedback and ruin his reputation. They would also need continue to improve the strategy and support the subscribers for the same reason. Of course, there can be a bad egg in basket (with anything literally), with time, we can be more experience to find out. PS: as disclaimer, I’m not yet seller, but if I do later, this is my thinking, hope it makes sense 🙂
Obviously, people still need to evaluate the strategy, and see if it fits their appetite. If you select a high draw down but good profit strategy, then you need to be ready to accept the draw down, if you selected a strategy with high win rate but big stop loss, then you have to accept the fact that you can face first trade as a loss, but willing to stick to it for a bit more time. I doubt anyone will price hundred thousands $ to their best strategy (and anyone will subscribe too), as no one can be 100% sure they will win the next moment (unless he/she control the whole world), strategy is just to have a better odds, to win more than loss and eventually see profit in a month or two (depends on strategy). If someone price it $100k and tell you sure win, you better run away…(because he is just trying to get $100k from you and run away) 🙂08/23/2020 at 12:27 PM #142320
I think this will be down to each and their own
Everyone knows they should put systems into demo first and make sure they perform as described and should have a money management plan
Personally I do not like black box systems but having done the research I know that others do
I also know that some people on the site will be trading 0.5 mini contracts and some are trading 10 lots of full futures contracts using the same code
There isn’t a way to set up pricing without creating an investment company and having a profit share
I also know that hidden indicators are a pain so anything that helps to take that away and gives a single place in which people can sell their codes, skills and time is all for the better09/07/2020 at 10:49 AM #143533
Will the MarketPlace still open this year?
Or does it continue until all have V11.
I know you have a lot to do but from the announcement until now it is
Have a nice day Almost 1 year has passed.
You’re doing a great job
Have a nice day09/07/2020 at 10:56 AM #14353509/14/2020 at 5:47 AM #14416409/14/2020 at 8:37 AM #14417209/15/2020 at 2:51 PM #14435209/15/2020 at 2:59 PM #144354
Reading this whole topic might help, but you can find further similar topics here:09/15/2020 at 3:05 PM #144357
Look at this simple example on how to localize your strategy into an hidden indicator: https://www.prorealcode.com/topic/how-to-create-hidden-strategy-for-trading/#post-130213
The export process is simpler when you are a vendor in the marketplace. You just need to export a specific ITF file (the “masteritf”) that will embed at the same time the open-source code for the strategy and all attached indicators as hidden files. Therefore, one export, one masteritf file is necessary for a vendor to add his product into the marketplace. Each time someone bought the product, the masterfile is used to generate an unique serial number that the buyer just have to copy/paste into his platform to benefit from the product instantly (no importation is needed, the product is installed automatically).