Multiple entrys, number of bars error

Forums ProRealTime English forum ProOrder support Multiple entrys, number of bars error

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
  • #102660

    Hi all,

    I just noticed that when a position has multiple entries in the backtest report the number of bars in the closed orders tab  for the second of further entry appear as “0”, also for the result in each entry appear then mean of the global result of all entrys not the actual result for eachone, you can see it in the image attached

    How can I report this kind of error? Because with the PRT after many tickets the only thing I got so far has been frustration and bitterness, I decided not to waste my time and good emotions with them again.

    #102715

    Hi TempusFugit,

    I have experienced the same. I don’t thing PRT see it as an error. I believe that in auto trading when you have multiple trades/entries in one strategy, PRT merges then in one, and the positionprice/average price of all of them becomes the current price of the positions (now position). So, when you see the backtest you will see the total profit for the operation, and the backtest will share the profits between the different contracts/entries, while they allocate the total number of bars just to one of them.

    This is how it happens in DEMO, my doubt is if that happens also in REAL.

    Saludos

    #102718

    Gracias por la respuesta Juan,

    Probably you are right that PRT don´t see it as an error but IMHO is clearly an error. Even if you decice it´s better to just count the first entry as the only important and don´t need to put the other entry number of bars, not a right decision IMO, then they should be coherent and put all the benefit in that first entry. It has no sense at all to divide the result equally betwen the entrys. Even the time of the entry in the second and further entries is wrong, they just put the exit time/day, making VERY difficult to analize that serie of data, which is the purpose of that report.

    It didn´t occur to me that it could be different in live, I hope you are right.

    Saludos

    #102720

    Partial closure of positions is not currently possible in PRT but multiple position opening is and so if you have opened 3 long positions then in reality you have one long position with a price which is the average of the three. If we could partially close positions then individual information on each of the three trades (or even more if we sell positions smaller than the opening size) would be useful – but as they are currently treated as one trade then dividing the profit or loss by three and just showing the number of bars on one of the trades tells us all we need to know at the moment IMHO.

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #102769

    Sorry to desagree Vonasi but if it´s easy to calculate the individual information of each entry (profit/loss and nºbars) why wouldn´t it be right to know? I want to analize each entry individually if possible and not only the whole position. Don´t you really think is better to know the information as detailed as possible?

    And in the time of the entrys appearing the time of the exit is also corret in your opinion?

    #102775

    And in the time of the entrys appearing the time of the exit is also corret in your opinion?

    That would all depend on whether those are the times that are being used to calculated the average times on market etc. If so then they are very wrong. If not then it matters nothing if only one of the trades shows the time that the first position was opened and the time all three positions were closed and two of them show zero time and zero bars.

    If we ever get live partial closure then I want to see every detail of every trade otherwise what we have in your screenshot is sufficient as long as it does not effect any other results that we use for analysis such as time in trades and time between trades.

    #102779

    Vonasi, I hope you are right and when the so long waited partial closure works then everything will be perfect, but if the information that appear now is NOT TRUE and everybody seems happy with it then I don´t expect better in the future. Hope to be wrong 😉

    #102784

    but if the information that appear now is NOT TRUE

    The information that appears now is true! We open a trade we add to it then we close it completely. The report shows us the length of the trade from start to end, the start time and date and the end time and date. Those are all facts so what is not true? It does not break down each and every added trade and each closed trade but how would you do that if for example you bought three times with position sizes of  1, 3 and 10 and then sold with position sizes of 1, 2, 5 and 6?

    #102812

    Vonasi,

    What´s NOT TRUE in the two last lines of the backtest image of my first message?:

    • Number of bars: “0”: NOT TRUE
    • Time of entry: “12 enero 2011 12:00:00” NOT TRUE
    • Profit/Loss: “19,47€” NOT TRUE

    I guess you you are fine with the present report, but I am not because I can not analyse the backtests as I use to do with that kind of information. I think we can only agree to disagree, are you ok with that? 🙂

     

    #102817

    We will have to agree to disagree but you have not told us how you would like the results to be shown if you open multiple positions of varying size at different times and then close them with varying position size in maybe less or more trades than you used to open them and at varying times?

    BUY 1 contract at 1200

    BUY 3 contracts at 1300

    BUY 10 contracts at 1400

    then

    SELL 1 contract at 1500

    SELL 2 contract at 1600

    SELL 5 contract at 1700

    SELL 6 contract at 1800

    It is impossible to list them as separate closed trades with specific start and stop times but what we can say is that we opened a trade at 1200 and added to it then slowly closed it out until that trade was fully closed at 1800. The total number of bars was however many there was between 1200 and 1800 and the gain/loss was whatever the profit/loss was once everything was sold. These are all ‘TRUE’ facts and are shown in the current report. Please tell us how PRT could show it in any other way for the above situation?

     

     

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #102822

    Vonasi,

    I was trying to finish this conversation because I don´t think is going to solve nothing and frankly it start to look like a battle of egos but as you ask me directly:

    I don´t know what do I want in the case you present because it´s something NOT POSSIBLE right now, I don´t know how the partial exit will work and I haven´t thought about it. I only know what do I want with what is posible right now, that is… different entrys with the right information for each one, because the information right now is NOT TRUE, and the frustrating part for me is that I think it would be easy to correct.

    Not trying to outsmart you here, really!, but look like you are trying to force me to recognize something that as far as I can tell is wrong and “not can do”

    Thank you for your help in many other things and I don´t want to trouble you more

    #102827

    Not sure where the ego thing comes from. You started a topic saying that something was an error when in reality it isn’t. Partial closure is possible in PRT but only in back testing so PRT need right now a way to show the result of the multiple trades. To fulfil your request and fix your ‘error’ they would need some way of detecting whether you have actually closed trades in amounts equal to the amounts that you opened them with and to know which closure relates to which opening. If you use partial closure of varying amounts they would need need to know what amounts at closure relate to what amounts at open which is impossible, hence I guess why they do it the way they do it.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #102922

    Another question related to multiple entrys… do you know if in a system with multiple entrys in ProOrder the max positions your introduce to acticate a system is the max por each entry or for the whole position?

     

    #102940

    Hi Tempus,

    The max. number of contracts you insert once you activate a strategy in ProOrder is the max number of contracts you can use.

    Let me explain. If you you have an strategy that allows cumulate orders and your maxcontracts in the code allows you to reach 10 contracts/lots, you will have to insert 10 when you activate the code. If you insert 5, the maximum num as a whole will be 5, regardless that the code says 10.

    And of course, the maximum contracts per entry should be always lower than the number of contract you insert when activate your code in ProOrder.

    Saludos,

    1 user thanked author for this post.
Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)

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