Results validation with our demo and proposal to add demos in the Marketplace
08/05/2022 at 2:43 PM #198556
Probably one of the most important topics about the MarketPlace revolves around the veracity of the results.
Since we started, we were offering trials and demos to interested people or already customers who ask about other systems. Over time we changed and re-thought about how, when and why to offer it (believe me that it’s not an easy question in fact, not depends only on a way to demonstrate the veracity). In fact, a few months ago we decided to make trails only in exceptional or specific cases, because we never find a direct relation between the results that a customer had during a trial period and the sells/subscriptions after the period.
But let’s see the main goal of this post. We were publishing the systems with past expiration date (using dates already expired and then not usable in ProOrder); but since April 2021 (as far I remember), we changed the way used to offer our demo: our demo allows to continue backtesting it in future, without expiration.
In fact is so simple: we only have to export the systems with the option in the middle named “Non modifiable code”. This non-modifiable ITF files exported have no visible code and will continue working (just in BT, not in ProOrder). Then, we have a simple way to allow to potential customers not only to see past results, they can continue see the positions in live (yes! It means that our entry signals are public, we know it)
You can download our demo here for understanding and to see our systems too, of course:
Then, how to believe the results shown in the BT of the ITF files? Just because it was exported days or months ago (each file depending on the publication date of each system). We will agree with that if you develop today a system, stores the ITF in local and you forget it……….if in 2024 you run a backtest and the system won 10k since was exported…..you can be sure that you lost the opportunity of win these 10k, is it? (Of course considering the BT vs market conditions, spread, etc, etc….this is another topic)
Our proposal is to allow to do the same in the product pages of the MarketPlace, allowing people to run an updated backtest of the system before buy it. We made this proposal to admins a few days ago, we really want that all providers can compete in equal conditions.
Adding a few images of the messages above. We are opening this thread to allow to see your opinions. I tried to be brief (difficult for me). I prefer that you indicate if it is understood and that proposals and questions arise.
Cheers08/05/2022 at 3:51 PM #198565
Sorry, I missed to add one of the most important consequences: Users will be able to validate the Out Of Sample period, because the release date is visible and the idea is that will be a demo ITF file for each update (something like a table with ITF and release date would be fine, is it?)08/05/2022 at 5:56 PM #19858108/05/2022 at 6:02 PM #19858608/05/2022 at 6:06 PM #198588
Just download the whole ZIP with the button at right (see the image). Google Drive manages the ZIP showing a kind of preview that not allow to download file per file.
Thanks for the interest. I would like to hear more thoughts!
1 user thanked author for this post.09/01/2022 at 12:08 PM #200014
What a pity that this thread do not had the impact that we expected. The key point here not is our demo, the key point here is the proposal of allow that users can have demo files of the provided systems stored by a third party (the MarketPlace itself).
Anybody with experience know that can be easy to develop well-looking backtests that later will make a hole in the account, because it goes down and down in the Out Of Sample period; and that’s the result of overfitting. Then, allowing the MarketPlace to store downloadable demo files, users will be able to look for publication date of the system and look it’s results in Out Of Sample, it’s real results. And having something like a table with the system version, the date, and downloadable ITF demo file of each version..users will have all the instrument to verify the real results (always considering that demo files in BT not will bring super exact results, and this can vary a bit, but this is another topic)
We have simply reasons to request this feature: we are confident (and we are consequent) with our systems, our results and publications are real, we are best sellers in the marketplace…..and we feel that will be even better for us when the MarketPlace increase the ways to increase the quality of the systems. Providers will have the tools to compete in equal conditions and customers will increase the ways to verify the results and assess by themselves the quality and expectations of a system before to rent it.
Anyway we talked about this weeks ago with Nicolas, and he confirmed that the functionality will be included. We think that now this feature becomes important. How to apply it will depend on MarketPlace owners, our proposal is to add directly the link in the product page like in the attached image, and then will appear a table with the system version, the date, and downloadable ITF demo file of each version
Thanks09/06/2022 at 9:43 PM #200254
I just started to buy and look for systems so all new to this. But so far I find it really hard to validate what it is Im buying/renting. I see some systems presented with “golden periods” of selected data and data that is starting to get old, and reinvestments included and different contract sizes and tuning. All this makes it hard to choose and compare.
It would be really good if there was data that was up to date and as comparable as possible with other systems. To actually do tests yourself on potential systems would be icing on the cake (and who doesn’t like to always have cake 🙂 ).
Since Im all new I cant say if what the author suggests will work but it does address what I feel needs to improve on the marketplace. So thanks for this thread and a bump since I think this is important.
/Belthan09/07/2022 at 8:21 AM #200262
But I think that searching among the many strategies that MarketPlace offers is not that complicated, just look and check if they publish the live by checking the date of insertion in the live and how long it has been running with any updates that are there.
If there are sellers who don’t include it just don’t look at them and you will see that the sellers are drastically reduced.
Paul09/07/2022 at 10:18 AM #200287