ProRealAlgos? Real or fake

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Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 227 total)
  • #158594

    I’m sure there are better results than this though.

    Yes there are … that must be by far the worst example.

    Most of the PRTA Algos show a good profitable equity curve on backtest … as you’d expect.

    Are you running them on UTC+1 Timezone?

    #158597

    @Monobrow

    Will do.

     

    @GraHal

    Yes I do (timeframe). It was the first and only backtest I’ve made. I was surprised though, because with stops and targets like 1.61 and 3.01, it certainly looks like it has been optimized.

    #158628

    because with stops and targets like 1.61 and 3.01

    I agree.

    if i’m paying someone 2.5k for a bunch of algos, id expect something a little more dynamic. Im a noob here and have worked out (well, from the forum :))  how to use RSI for better results than fixed to 2 decimals.

    #158634

    Downloaded their latest free package, backtested 5 different algos and they all look bad. Their results on the home page dont fit the real thing

    #158635

    I agree.

    if i’m paying someone 2.5k for a bunch of algos, id expect something a little more dynamic. Im a noob here and have worked out (well, from the forum :)) how to use RSI for better results than fixed to 2 decimals.

    Just for the record, I just checked, and the example with the 1.61 and 3.01 stop and target was not particular for the Dax 2 minute-algo (but e.g. SP500, US100). That one has a 2% stop.

    #158643

    Optimization is not synonymous with over-optimization.
    Concerning backtests, it is important to compare them with the same data: start and end date, spreads used, exact same instrument?
    Aren’t the results presented by this company based on a portfolio of strategies rather than on individual backtests?
    This applies to all strategy codes that can be downloaded here for free or for a fee on the internet. The assessment of a backtest according to one’s own analysis and one’s own view of what is good or bad is rather subjective.
    I am well aware that you want to recoup your costs, but a strategy that does not ruin your account is already, in my opinion, not so bad, here as elsewhere, nobody will be able to tell you 100% that the future will be as pleasant as the past 😉

    This being said, if you can test in demo for a good period of time, everyone will be able to make their own opinion and take note or not of whether these systems are worth it or not.

    #158651

    We don’t really want to get too involved in the discussions of this thread but we were thinking that we could provide some thoughts on the subject in general.
     

    • It’s a good idea to be sceptical and make your own assessment of any products/services you buy. Whether it’s a new car, or algos for ProRealTime. We provide free trial periods for that single reason.
       
       
    • To make an assessment and draw general conclusions on single entries, on single parameter values, on a single day etc is statistically irrelevant.
       
       
    • With that said, since the trial period start this sunday these are the results (please also see attached image)
      3 closed trades with 3 wins (marked with black lines)
      3 onging trades (marked with green dots):
      US100 Short (curreny in latent loss)
      DAX30 Long (current in latent win)
      US500 Long (currently in latent win)

     

    Let’s evaluate the results again in 3 weeks when we will have seen 50+ orders instead of 10.
     
    Please don’t hesitate if you have any questions. And please go to our website if you want to test the algos yourself (for free).
     
    (As I was writing this there was another long entry for DAX30. Also in latent win now)

    #158655

    Optimization is not synonymous with over-optimization.

    Concerning backtests, it is important to compare them with the same data: start and end date, spreads used, exact same instrument?

    Aren’t the results presented by this company based on a portfolio of strategies rather than on individual backtests?

    This applies to all strategy codes that can be downloaded here for free or for a fee on the internet. The assessment of a backtest according to one’s own analysis and one’s own view of what is good or bad is rather subjective.

    I am well aware that you want to recoup your costs, but a strategy that does not ruin your account is already, in my opinion, not so bad, here as elsewhere, nobody will be able to tell you 100% that the future will be as pleasant as the past 😉

    This being said, if you can test in demo for a good period of time, everyone will be able to make their own opinion and take note or not of whether these systems are worth it or not.

     

    – Very true about optimization. But when I see moving averages like 63 and 89, or in this case a stop of 1.61%, then I get a bit suspicious regarding over-optimization. But that is most likely subjective as well.

    – Not sure what you mean with the same start and end date. If I download a strategy from here or anywhere else, I would test it on my available 100k of data right? Because I can’t have anymore historical data that what I have available. But of course, correct spread and instrument is a must.

    – “[] but a strategy that does not ruin your account is already, in my opinion, not so bad[]”. Totally agree about the future and the past. But I must say I expect more from a strategy than you described there. I’m a rookie in this though, only have 4 strategies on real money. But all 4 are winning and making good profits (one of them are very slow though). For me, a “not so bad” strategy is one that is break even (or better). A strategy that is losing in the long run is not a good strategy in my book, and should be replaced in my portfolio. But again, in a couple of years, I might think the same! Maybe it’s my new-beginners-luck that is talking here. 🙂

    – I think that is a part of the problem. 3 weeks of testing (the trial lasts that long) is really not that long test period. For me it would be way too early to run on real money with that small testperiod.

     

     

    #158657

    Hi Mattias,

    We understand the concern. We would’ve liked to be able to offer longer trial periods. The reason we only can offer them for a limited period of time is that it’s not possible to create personal trials. The algo files can be copied and re-used by everyone. This means that we have no control over who and how people uses it. More specifically, we have no control over whether or not a persion runs on trial algos over and over again, without ever purchasing the algo.

    But after this three weeks you will see that the results we publish on our website and on our twitter corresponds with the results you see yourself on your account. Meaning that you can trust the results we publish after the trial period.
    Also on a more regular basis we provide algos that can only be used for backtest (algo with a validity date older than todays date), so you can verify the historical results in that way too.
    And thirdly, you can always verify the results with any of our 100+ customers.

    And with that said, I’m leaving this thread to itself. Talk to you again in a couple of weeks.

    #158658

    Here’s a screenshot just taken. I started mine later than you, but why hasn’t your Japan taken a trade? Have I done something wrong there? I have my setting on UTC+1 timezone.

    Edit: Thanks for replying.

     

     

    #158660

    There’s no screenshot attached.

    #158661

    Here’s a screenshot just taken. I started mine later than you, but why hasn’t your Japan taken a trade? Have I done something wrong there? I have my setting on UTC+1 timezone.

    On this specific account we run only 19 out of 20 algos due to the fact that the leverage of the Nikkei indice available is too high.

    But yes, the PRA+ Nikkei M5 algo is in a long latent position. Entered at January 19th at 12:20(UTC+01)

    #158663

    By some reason my image didn’t want to attach, maybe it’s working now.

    #158666

    – Very true about optimization. But when I see moving averages like 63 and 89, or in this case a stop of 1.61%, then I get a bit suspicious regarding over-optimization. But that is most likely subjective as well.

    Indeed, but MA are just “lines in the sand”, I think these periods are obviously optimized, but surely validated with a robustness test in OOS period.

    – Not sure what you mean with the same start and end date. If I download a strategy from here or anywhere else, I would test it on my available 100k of data right? Because I can’t have anymore historical data that what I have available. But of course, correct spread and instrument is a must.

    No, because if a strategy is optimized during multiple IS periods, they are not validated in the past OOS ones but in the future ones. Since you can’t know how the strategy had been optimized (how many IS+OOS, since when, for how many times, etc..), you will never be able to replicate how the strategy would have behaved in the past and surely not with the current optimized settings!

    I strongly recommend to read more about robustness testing and the walk forward analysis tool.

    I’m only replying here since it seems to be an “hot topic” currently, and comments made are in strong relation with what we are trying here to educate people with (robustness testing), please don’t take it as a recommendation to use the systems you are talking about here, or not 😉

    #158669

    I strongly recommend to read more about robustness testing and the walk forward analysis tool.

    I’m only replying here since it seems to be an “hot topic” currently, and comments made are in strong relation with what we are trying here to educate people with (robustness testing), please don’t take it as a recommendation to use the systems you are talking about here, or not 😉

    Ok, thanks a lot for replying. I am constantly using the WF-tool, but of course I have a lot more to learn. 🙂

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 227 total)

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