Broker data anomoly closing auto systems

• 11/04/2025 at 11:55 AM #253268
  justisan

  hi again coincatcha,

  in those multiple years with IG I also did not have too many serious issues, but it was always very frustrating how they deal with the issues, when I had some. because basically they don’t care. in the end my major motivation to move to real markets / futures was those very frequent large “minimum stop distances”, temporarily but aritificially implemented by IG: I mean how can one trade, if broker dictates you where you are allowed to put your entry stop and your exit stop? it’s total joke, bucket shop style… it was killing so many of my trades, and I am not some very frequently trading guy, and not running hundreds of algos, but every, really every trade matters, even those losers – because you basically don’t know if next trade will be a loss or big winner. okay, I can imagine that other guys (like you and JS) are using different type/stile/strategy of entries/exits which then are not or much less affected by IGs manipulation. Anyway I was so eager to move to automated futures trading, when PRT offered that posibility  in collaboration with IB. And I don’t know why you are writing about learning python/c++: you can run your PRT-algos with IG (with some adjustments possibly, but still).  on other hand myself I would love to learn those programming languages – just in order to become indipendent from PRT 😀 and being able to run my algos via any other futures broker of my choice. not necessary now, but it’s my plan/idea for next few years.

  and thanks, heavy dd (close to 20% of equity) which I had in april was mainly over by mid of may, and beginning of august equity made new highs, so all fine, hoping now for productive end of year… and whish you the same!

  cheers

  justisan

  

  justisan

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  11/04/2025 at 12:01 PM #253270
  justisan

  I meant “you can run your PRT-algos with IB” (not “with IG”).

  I just don’t know if PRT offers futures trading via IB in “whole world” or citizens of some countries are excluded. but you surely will figure out quickly, if interested.

  

  justisan

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  11/04/2025 at 12:51 PM #253274
  coincatcha

  Yes thanks I knew what you meant Justisan. Thinking back I did look into IB a few years ago before I was automated and there was some reason why I decided not to. Either I couldn’t use it or had no reason to. But I will re-visit this idea and look again.

  So glad your account picked back up. You actually seemed very confident at the time and have confidence in your work. It also helps to have a track record and knowing on aggregate we do the right things which is often ‘nothing’, just measure and don’t panic.

  I mentioned other coding languages for the reason you stated. Just to be independent. When I watch and see methodology from other quants using python who are often ex-firm researchers their knowledge is outstanding and practice is top notch but their results and reasoning just doesn’t match my ambition and risk appetite. Even though they are academically trained in quantitative finance they seem to accept too little performance relative to DD and say it can’t be any better and that their way is THE way to do things things properly. To that I say “pull the other one”. Just look at JS above, what a little (actually lots) of deep thinking can achieve. Add to that some money management and then say Goodbye to mediocrity. There are many on this platform Nicolas has created who are so so talented. None of us are doing this for 10%pa.

  When I see results like JS posted I feel so small indeed. Then the fire lights back up and I know I must step up, level up and keep pushing harder. Such a great community you guys have here.

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  JS

  

  coincatcha

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  11/04/2025 at 4:00 PM #253284
  justisan

  ahm, 10%pa might be not that bad 😀 depends on how it relates to the risk, let’s say to max dd, and on how much capital one manages. if dd is 1% – it’s extraordinary performance those 10%pa, or even if it is %5 dd – it is still absolutely okay for my understanding of risk/reward when reward is 10%. and if you trade 1M you can make good living with that risk/reward 😀 so maybe you can tell, what are the expectations of those pros in terms of perfromance vs. dd?

  I have confidence in my work, yes, and still – april was hard. not literally panicing, but was having some serious concerns when seeing equity rapidly approaching my personal limit of max dd for a portfolio. I never set a “target” for profits, for how much I “should” earn per year or per strategy, but setting limit for portfolio losses, which is 15% from peak equity. after reaching this level in april I was starting to reduce positions of some strategies – of those 2 which in particular were making their new historical max dd at that moment. just few days after reducing positions markets were skyrocketing, and I earned less than I would have without reducing my size. but how could I know that funny president of “country to be great again” will remove those tariffs which were crashing markets before 😀 and first rule since ever for me is – survive=preserve the capital. so I am happy I reduced positions, does not matter what happened just shortly after that. “I would”… “I could”… – markets don’t care about that, don’t care about my account, don’t care about our accounts and what we would/could/should. the moment we ignore/do not respect/do not limit the risk, we are on the way to the bankrupcy, financially and/or psychologically… even if that is no secret, only few guys really know it, have engraved it in their brains and hearts, and many more will learn it. hopefully.

   

  

  justisan

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  11/04/2025 at 6:30 PM #253289
  PeterSt

  Hi there coincatcha,

  I follow this topic from the start but only now have some time to respond. And thank you for mentioning me a couple of times.
  Let me respond to your latest quest first : why (not) IB :

  • IB is half the price of IG. This is roughly and it depends on the number of trades you perform (say per time unit).
    Throughout time I learned not to be depended on the commission or spread, hence way less trades than I can do and did (like 100s per day – I even managed to ask PRT to higher the limit on Backtest trades – which limit is 50000).
    Thus golden rule for me : drop the number of trades and be free to choose which broker to use.
  • You need to know that the growing you foresee (by MM) is enormously more difficult for IB because you have 4 times or so the minimum trade size over IG, some times much more, depending on the Futures instrument.
  • I think for IB you will need the API from PRT when in Australia. This may be a downside for you because a. your latency is high as h*ll and b. you must now do all yourself (the server is then yours, not at PRT’s).
  • It took me a year to overcome all the IG issues** but it took me another year after that to overcome similar (but different) for IB. Hence, never think you won’t be having “thrown out” issues with IB because you will have just the same and beyond. It is only that you may not notice them because of your means of trading (could spend a book on this alone). This is mainly about autotrading but about manual trading just as well.
  • For both IG and IB the latter means that you need your “growing” strategies to be able to start-through (have special variables telling what the last status was before the system was thrown out). I just have the 3rd of 4th incarnation of that, but it still gives me the creeps because of hectic moments and the eagerness to start-through the soonest.
  • IB systems make way way more easy money because the “commission” is about half. Even with only a few trades per day this is do or die, because with too much commission nothing wins. Solution : way more high TPs automatically causing less trades and probably a better TP/SL relation.
  • IG has far more markets – say everything, good or bad. IB has only “good”. At least for us over here in Holland.
  • Never underestimate : With IG you can try forever with new systems while the old still run. 100 different on Nasdaq alone if you want. With IB only one system is allowed per instrument. The only thing you can do is use the large contracts (like 450K minimum), the micros (often 10 times less) and some times a third variant (like for DAX 3 exist). Downside : the e.g. 10 times smaller cost 2 times the commission of the larger. This too is a clear reason for me to be independent of the commission (IB) or spread (IG).
  • You mentioned Pro vs Retailer : in IB it can only be hurting to be Pro (would you require your own data you pay tenfold – but notice that data is included in PRT). Once a Pro you will never get rid of that status (it is registered at the exchanges). Thus also : you will not be able to have more margin because of being Pro. In IG it sure will and the advantage of that is enormous, **if** you only have winning systems … (margin is virtually infinite but I guess you already know that).

   

  I lean more and more towards IG but this is because I better and better have it under control. The earning is more difficult but that depends on how smart you are to squeeze out winners you actually gave up upon already. Does that next work better with IB again ? Probably. But for me it is of no use to try to implement that while I am glad things run in there for a while anyway. Remember : one system per instrument only, so the running system has to be kicked out first. By you yourself this time. 🙁

  **): It takes trial and error forever and you *have* to run through all the sorts of anomalies before you covered for all of them. This is how it takes a year, mind you (!) which can only be done when in Real Live. Currently I feel that I am out of danger from anomalies (including the Stop distance stuff) but that took me … ehh … 7 years ?.
  Moral : never think that you have a good system because the backtests do fine. It is less than half of the work.

  First screenshot is all IG (and then to think I am happy with that). Mind the systemS mentioned quite often.
  Second is IB and looks to be better.

  Regards !
  Peter

  

  PeterSt

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