Amplitude and Power

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  • #179745 quote
    JS
    Participant
    Senior

    Amplitude and Power

     

    When you have two random signals:

     

    S1: 3 4 6 8 3 5 7 9 2 4 6 8 3 6 9

    S2: 4 13 21 45 32 8 7 9 8 3 5 4 6 5 7

     

    Standard deviation S1 = 2.3258383

    Standard deviation S2 = 11.9654264

     

    When you add S1 and S2 together you get signal S3

     

    S1 + S2 = S3: 7 17 27 53 35 13 14 18 10 7 11 12 9 11 16

     

    Standard deviation S3 = 12.4077549

     

    When you add the standard deviation S1 to the standard deviation S2

     

    2.3258383 + 11.9654264 = 14.2912647

     

    So it turns out that the added standard deviation of S1 + S2 is uneven with the standard deviation of S3.

     

    Why is this so?

     

    This has to do with the physicality of signals. When you add two random signals together, the combined random signal is not an addition of the amplitudes but of the Power. In electronics, the Power = U2/ R (U is the amplitude here)

     

    So we have to square the signals first:

     

    S1: 9 16 36 64 9 25 49 81 4 16 36 64 9 36 81

    S2: 16 169 441 2025 1024 64 49 81 64 9 25 16 36 25 49

     

    Standard deviation S1: 26.615427

    Standard deviation S2: 552,791212

     

    S1 + S2 = S3: 25 185 477 2089 1033 89 98 162 68 25 61 80 45 61 130

     

    Standard deviation S3 = 579.406639

     

    Now the standard deviation of the combined signal is equal to the added standard deviation of the individual signals;

     

    26.615427 + 552.791212 = 579.406639

     

    The above is also the reason that when calculating the standard deviation, the deviation is squared with the average, with this you actually calculate the Power of the deviation instead of just the deviation.

    #179764 quote
    JS
    Participant
    Senior

    “the deviation with the average is squared” not “the deviation is squared with the average”

    #179768 quote
    PeterSt
    Participant
    Master

    I have my Radioshack SPL meter ready, set at C-weighting …

    This week’s levels were quite okay (finally); Thursday it was well above 90dBSPL. The relation to last week’s gains definitely exists.

    Of course it is clear that when I want a gain of 3 more, I need to invest double the money. No wait … if I want an output of 3 more, I need to double the gain power.

    image_2021-10-16_050641.png image_2021-10-16_050641.png
    #179770 quote
    JS
    Participant
    Senior

    @PeterSt Good to hear that your level is up since last week…

    #179784 quote
    JS
    Participant
    Senior

    Can we learn anything from the above regarding trading?

     

    Be aware that when you use a (volatility) indicator that is only based on the amplitude (difference between open, close, high, low, etc.) such as the ATR, that these types of indicators do not fit well with the physics of how signals operate.

    #179788 quote
    snucke
    Participant
    Veteran

    how have you come to the conclusion that all the signals provided by all these indicators is wrong?

    “physics of how signal operate”?

     

    are you saying there is a better way to generate these signals?

    i would argue that a signal that is being used by many is bad… it does not matter how it is being created

    #179789 quote
    JS
    Participant
    Senior

    where do you read that all these indicators are wrong? (i was talking about volatility indicators)

    No

    bad signals? What do you mean by bad signals?

    #179790 quote
    snucke
    Participant
    Veteran

    wrong might have been the wrong word to use… sorry… i think you still got my point though?

    #179791 quote
    JS
    Participant
    Senior

    @snucke do you understand what is happening when you calculate the standard deviation?

    Do you understand why the deviation with the average is squared?

    Do you understand what is happening when you add two random signals together?

    Etc.

    It is not about good or bad.

    #179797 quote
    snucke
    Participant
    Veteran

    as the market is not logical a signal can in my opinion not be “right” or calculated in a better way

    #179798 quote
    JS
    Participant
    Senior

    @snucke where do you read that a signal is “right” or that a signal can be calculated in a better way?

    #179799 quote
    snucke
    Participant
    Veteran

    “such as the ATR, that these types of indicators do not fit well with the physics of how signals operate.”

    #179800 quote
    JS
    Participant
    Senior

    @snucke so it is not about the signal but the indicator.

    Do you understand what happens when you add two random signals together?

    The combined signal is not the addition of the amplitudes but of the power of the two random signals.

    The standard deviation deals with this “behavior” by squaring the deviation with the average, the ATR doesn’t.

    #179801 quote
    snucke
    Participant
    Veteran

    i still do not get your point

    #179802 quote
    JS
    Participant
    Senior

    @snucke what is it that you don’t understand?

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Amplitude and Power


General Trading: Market Analysis & Manual Trading

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JS @js Participant
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This topic contains 16 replies,
has 3 voices, and was last updated by JS
4 years, 3 months ago.

Topic Details
Forum: General Trading: Market Analysis & Manual Trading
Language: English
Started: 10/15/2021
Status: Active
Attachments: 1 files
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